specific on how to restructure medicare. is it responsible for the met to present a vision being specific on tax hikes but on medicare saying, we'll get to a specific number but we won't specify? is it because there's so much pressure on the left to not reform medicare? >> i think it's certainly a fight. and i think we have to be careful. we have to make sure -- i think we can get to means testing fairly easily. some higher co-pays for people who can afford it. as i said before, donald trump may need medication but he doesn't need the government to pay for it. we've got to get to a point where we are really having people who can afford to pay for their health care, having them take that responsibility. >> that's the position the president should adopt in your view? >> i think so. i think aggressive means testing for people who can afford it makes sense as we look at long-term savings in the medicare program. but here's the thing. bob and i both know, he and i are talking and i think we can get a deal through the senate. the